Snobs vs. Slobs

The All-Star starters will be revealed on Sunday. With that in mind, Ross and I got together on teh Interwebz to discuss who we’ve got on our ballots.

Taft: Well, I have decided to take my all-star ballotting a little more seriously than I usually do because of something you said to me. Whether we like it or not, All-Star ballotting is important because it is something that a lot of BBWAA writers consider when filling out their hall of fame ballots.

Ross: Exactly!

Taft: That’s not to say that most two-time all-stars are going to get much HOF consideration, but a big knock on a guy like Rafael Palmeiro (other than the whole steroid thing) when considering his candidacy is the fact that he was “only” a four-time all-star.

Ross: That’s what I’ve been saying forever.

Taft: But at the same time, I have sort of a hypocritical attitude about it, because I don’t care if a Cubs fan fills out a ballot with all Cubs. I understand that fans are goiing to vote for the guys on their team, and I think that’s fine. It’s supposed to be for the fans, so I say the fans should vote for whoever they want. Nuts like us can take it seriously and tell people who they should vote for, but if Pat Swersky from Lake Zurich wants to vote for Ronny Cedeno, let him vote for Ronny Cedeno.

Ross: Chipper Jones’ HOF consideration may hinge on that stuff. He’ll probably get in, but he’s been to the ASG five times.

Taft: Five is pretty good. I bet he’ll go to another before it’s all said and done. Chipper also has an MVP and a bunch of postseason appearances, which sets him in a different category than a guy like Raffy, but that’s another conversation.

Ross: Yeah. Frank Thomas: Five ASG appearances. (Two MVP awards, though)

Taft: Yeah, I think MVPs trump ASG appearances most of the time

Ross: Anyway, my thought is this: The ASG is problematic because it is largely looked at as a “best first half” award and that’s stupid.

Taft: Yes.

Ross: Frank Thomas in 2000, when he came in second in MVP voting, he did not make the ASG.
Same for Chipper Jones when he won it. (This is a phrase I use a lot, so forgive me) I like how the NBA does it.

They have an ASG at the midpoint and then, they have the All-NBA team at the end of the year.

The NFL’s pro bowl is at the end of the season. I like that, but, really, no one cares about the pro bowl.

Taft: The Pro Bowl sucks.

Ross: I agree

Taft: I think the baseball ASG is the best, even without the stupid “this time it counts” nonsense.

Ross: It’s pretty good. I like the HR derby.

Taft: So, we then agree that we are voting for a player not just having a good first half, but has been good for the past full season or beyond.

Ross: I tend to use VORP, and if it’s remotely close (within 5 points of VORP), I go with the guy who has had the better career. I understand that’s not a great way to do it; It does weigh heavily on good first halves.

Taft: VORP is good but only evaluates offense. I tend to look at defense at some of the more important defensive positions if it’s close (SS, C, CF)

Okay, so shall we get to the ballotting? The game is in Pittsburgh this year, a National League park, so we’ll start with the visiting team, the American Leaguers.

Ross: OK, let’s start with the catching position.

Taft: Indeed. Now, this may seem like a contradictory choice considering everything we just talked about, but I’m voting for Joe Mauer.

Ross: No way, dude. I agree. That’s not everything we’re against.

Taft: But it’s not a contradictory choice when you consider that Mauer hit .294/.372/.411 last year, excellent numbers for a catcher.

Ross: He’s also a guy that is a popular fan choice.

Taft: He’s pretty handsome, too. He’s leading the world in batting average, of course, .392/.458/.538, a 43.4 VORP. Ramon Hernandez, 2nd in the AL in VORP for catchers this season, has a 22.0 VORP. Mauer is hitting like a man possessed.

Ross: His VORP is basically doubling the next best guy. Unless he starts punching umpires or something, he’s most likely going to lead the AL catcher in VORP at the end of the year.

Taft: I’ve been fascinated by the Joe Mauer vs. Cubs Winning Percentage battle.

Ross: Yes, I figured. He’s not going to bat .400, Tehft.

Taft: The Cubs aren’t going to win 40% of their games, either.

Ross: And the Cubs are going to win 64 games. They will.

Taft: I hope so. They are not on pace to do so.

Ross: Sorry, 65.

Taft: They are on pace to go 61-101

Ross: I’m pretty sure they’ll win 65.

Taft: I hope so.

Ross: Anyway, I think Mauer is a pretty clear-cut choice.

Taft: Well, Victor Martinez is a decent vote, he’s had another nice half, and he was great last year.

Ross: Dude, Mauer’s been worth way more than Martinez

Taft: I agree, but Martinez isn’t a bad vote, is all I’m saying.

Ross: Normally, I’d vote for a guy like Pudge, but Mauer is just running laps around the rest of the American League catchers.

Taft: Pudge? Pudge doesn’t know how to walk anymore.

Ross: Yes, but he’s a HOFer.

Taft: True. Okay, shall we move onto 1B? And the old question, is a full-time DH in the AL a 1B in the NL?

Ross: I’m fine with that I play first base in softball. It’s easy. Much easier than my old position, shortstop.

Taft: I’m conflicted. Like, is David Ortiz the best first baseman in the AL? No, because he hasn’t played first base in any AL games

Ross: David Ortiz isn’t even the best DH.

Taft: No, Hafner is.

Ross: Travis Hafner has 20 points of VORP on him. Thome has 10.

Taft: But it’s the same question for him. And Thome.

Ross: I’m going to vote for Jim Thome. Obviously, there is some homerism in there and I’m cool with that. But, moreso, this is a place to right some wrongs.

Ross: He’s only a four-time all-star because he played in an American League with Jason Giambi, Frank Thomas and Raffy Palmeiro. I think he’s a HOFer. Borderline, but he’s there.

Taft: He’ll be there when it’s all said and done. He’ll hit 500 homers.

Ross: Right, but this is the steroid era. Anyway, I’m going with Thome. It is a homer pick, but I’m OK with that.

Taft: Well, I would vote for Jason Giambi, as he is leading the AL in VORP among first basemen – guys who have actually played first base, unlike the DHs – but Giambi’s no first baseman either.

Ross: No he is not.

Taft: So my vote goes to Hafner.

Ross: Pronk. Good nickname.

Taft: Great nickname, and he’s been nothing short of deadly at the plate for the past year. He has a .453 OBP., .620 SLG.

Ross: He’s a bad man.

Alex: Yeah, he’s all kinds of bad. In a good way.

Ross: I feel like we may have to start saying “Handsome” Joe Mauer.

Taft: 2B! I had some trouble at AL 2B. I sort of want to vote for Ian Kinsler, but I sort of know better than that, too. My vote is going to Brian Roberts, despite the fact that he has been hurt for a lot of this year and has mysteriously lost the power to hit homers. .313/.381/.412 in 270 PA this year. That’s pretty good.

Ross: Yeah, me too. He’s the best guy in the AL and it’s a thin position.

Taft: Yeah. He was great last year.

Ross: The top five in VORP is u-g-l-y.

Taft: Yeah, it is. It has not been a good year in the AL for 2B.

Ross: Roberts, Ivy-league educated Mark DeRosa, Jose Lopez, Robinson Cano and Mark Loretta. Tada Iguchi is 6th and he’s getting up there in the voting.

Taft: Though Ian Kinsler’s raw numbers are good, they don’t translate well because he’s been hurt: .291/.363/.496

Ross: Kinsler is a good player, but I’m still sticking with Roberts.

Taft: Me too. We don’t know if this is an anomaly from Kinsler or if he’s really this good. if he’s this good at this time next year, he gets my vote.

Ross: Yeah, me, too. Probably.

Taft: Okay, 3B?

Ross: Sure. Mike Lowell is having a nice year, but Alex Rodriguez remains the best player in baseball, non-Pujols division.

Taft: Yeah, Chavy is having a good year, too, but A-Rod is the no-brainer choice.

Ross: I love Eric Chavez, but A-Rod is the best in VORP (though not by an overwhelming margin) and he’s a first-ballot, inner-circle HOFer.

Taft: Couldn’t agree more. For all the talk about A-Rod and his “clutch problems” (which is a load of hooey, as we both know), he is hitting .279/.390/.496. I don’t know about you, but I’d kill for my 3B to hit that.

Ross: He won a game two days ago wth a walk-off in extra innings!

Taft: Right. Exactly.

Ross: If clutch exists (it doesn’t), he’s clutch. He’ll make it, too. The fans will get this one right.

Taft: Yeah, probably. How is he doing in the ballotting?

Ross: I think he’s leading.

Taft: For as much as fans seem to hate on A-Rod, he always starts the All-Star game.

Ross: He’s the best player in the AL!

Taft: Yes he is.

Shortstop!

My vote goes to one of my very favorite players, Miguel Tejada.

Ross: Tejada is the choice for me, as well. Jeter is very close, but the defense closes the gap for me.

Taft: The defense and the power closes the gap.

Ross: I love Derek Jeter. I think he gets slammed by Bostoners and anyone who hates the Yankees for no good reason. He’s a HOFer! He’s Robin Yount. There is no shame in that.
He’s just not Honus Wagner, as Yankee fans think him to be.

Taft: Jeter’s getting on base at a nutty clip, but he doesn’t hit for power. Tejada is slugging .519. He’s 5’9”.

Ross: Yes he is. Jeter will make it and Tejada will be the backup.

Taft: I love Tejada because of his infectious enthusiasm, and also because he justifies me not having to vote for Jeter in the ASG every year. Plus, he’s tiny and awesome. I love little players who are great, especially those who can hit for power.

Ross: He’s a wonderful player. Moody (he’s recently asked to be traded), but a good player.

Taft: How can he hit the ball so hard, Ross? He’s so little! You could put him in a box!

Taft: Okay, outfield. As always, I like to vote by position in the outfield. None of this three random outfielders nonsense. I vote for a left fielder, a center fielder and a right fielder.

Ross: I like the three random outfielder thing. For no good reason.

Taft: Fine. But your outfield will allow gappers aplenty.
LF: Manny Ramirez

Ross: I just like the idea that Manny Ramirez might have to play center one day in an ASG.
That makes me extremely happy

Taft: Might give the NL a chance to win.

Ross: I doubt it, but it might. You do your three, and I’ll give mine.

Taft: CF: Grady Sizemore
RF: Ichiro!
CF was a really tough choice for me. It came down to defense. Grady Sizemore is leading Vernon Wells in VORP by 0.5 points. Their raw stats: Wells: .315/.383/.607; Sizemore: .307/.381/.552…. Sizemore’s defense was superior, +1 RAA vs. -9

Ross: Meh. I have Sizemore, Vernon Wells and Manny Ramirez. They are the top three in VORP and no one else is close enough for me to worry about it. Wells played right in the WBC, let him play right next to Sizemore.

Taft: Yeah, I don’t have a problem with that, but Ichiro is leading AL RF in VORP, and is a hell of a fun player to watch. And certainly his past performance isn’t in question, whereas, let’s face it, Vernon Wells has been wildly inconsistent. He’s put up only one season that even closely resembles this season and that was in 2003.

Ross: Yeah, that’s true. I’m OK with him being an all-star,though.

Taft: I’d rather see it go to Ichiro!

Ross: Yeah, and he’ll make it.

Taft: Okay, onto the NL…

Taft: I am proud to cast my vote for NL catcher for Michael “I punched AJ Pierzynski in the face” Barrett. Brian McCann leads the league in VORP at catcher, but Barrett is second, is the reigning silver slugger winner at catcher in the NL, and is having the season of his career: .308/.370/.508. McCann is a nice player, but again, his hot start could be an anomaly as he is young. His numbers last year were nice, but nothing special: .278/.345/.400.

Ross: Yeah, McCann has been hurt. He’s likely to be a wonderful player for a while.

Taft: This is another Kinsler-y situation. If McCann puts up these sorts of numbers for a full year, he gets my vote. But that said, I agree with you, McCann is going to be a good player for a long time. Another excellent braves prospect. Your vote goes to?

Ross: Barrett.

Taft: even though he punched your buddy AJ in the face? That doesn’t seem like exemplary all-star activity.

Ross: A.J. is not my buddy.

Taft: He’s a gamer, Ross.

Ross: He’s an asshole. He’s a very goodplayer, but he’s a jackass.

Taft: Yes, he is. He’s a jerk, and deserved to be punched by somebody.
Maybe not in that situation…

Ross: Right.

Taft: But you know, I’m glad that he got his comeuppance.
Karma, Ross.

Ross: Well, I don’t wish violence on anyone.

Taft: Me neither.

Ross: And I certainly don’t believe in karma.

Taft: Nor do I. But it’s still nice to see a guy who does things like offering his new teammates $100 apiece if they hit a homer off his old teammates in spring training get his comeuppance.

Ross: Meh. He’s a bad guy. So was Ty Cobb. So is Barry Bonds.

Taft: Indeed. Okay, the second-easiest pick in the game is NL 1B:
Despite missing 15 days with an oblique injury, Albert Pujols is still clearly the best 1B in the league.

Ross: Albert Pujols. Albert Pujols. Albert! Pujols! If he just hit home runs, it’d be a no-brainer.

Taft: Ross, he missed 15 days and was still leading the league in homers when he came back.
that’s insane. He has since been overtaken by young Ryan Howard.

Ross: I love Ryan Howard.

Taft: Who is also having a Jim-dandy of a season.

Ross: I love Prince Fielder even more.

Taft: There is a slew of talented young 1B in the NL.

Ross: But, both of those guys pale in comparison to Albert Pujols.

Taft: Yeah, it’s true. Al-Pu is leading planet earth in OPS, .436/.712. Those are some approaching-Bondsian numbers.

Ross: You need to never call him Al-Pu ever again.

Taft: No te gusta Al-Pu?

Ross: Uh, no.

Taft: Well, the other thing about Al-Pu is that he is only 26. So this year and next year will probably be his best.

Ross: Well, he’s in his peak years, so we’re looking at a stretch of 4-5 years of this, maybe.

Taft: Quite possibly. I don’t like that he plays for the Cardinals, but you’ve gotta admire the prowess of Al-Pu.

Ross: Stop calling him Al-Pu.

Taft: Okay, onto 2B. To me, 2B is almost as much of a no-brainer as 1B: Chase Utley has been the best hitting 2B in the NL since the end of 2004, basically.

Ross: Dan Uggla is leading in VORP right now, but he’s a career minor leaguer.

Taft: exactly. Uggla is what, 27?

Ross: Aged 26.

Taft: He’s never going to put up numbers like this again past this season. (Probably.)

Ross: If Jeff Kent had a VORP closer to Utley’s, I’d go with him. But it’s not that close. Uggla’s season screams “fluke” to me.

Taft: Well, Kent has been hurt for a lot of this season, and more importantly, like you said, it’s not that close.
Utley’s hitting .294/.363/.506.
Uggla: .312/.365/.530. Wouldn’t surprise me if Uggla made it as a backup.

Ross: He might. Cabrera will likely get in, so the Fish will have someone. Which leads up to third base.

Taft: Yeah, you’d have to think Cabrera would be the Marlins’ de facto representative.

Ross: Nice segue, eh?

Taft: Beautiful segue. 3B in the NL is like catcher in the AL. There is a lot of talent at this position:
Cabrera, Wright, Rolen, Ensberg, Jones, Tracy, Zimmerman, Ramirez
are all solid NL 3Bs

Ross: Cabrera is leading Mr. Wright (get it?) by 3 points of VORP.

Ross: I really can’t choose. I have no idea which guy to choose.

Taft: Well, I’m going with Cabrera.

Ross: Rolen is a borderline HOFer, but I think we’re looking at two budding superstars in Wright and Cabrera.

Taft: Cabrera’s leading 3Bs in VORP, and has a sick line: .343/.442/.573

Ross: I think I’m going to go with Wright on his defense. Also, he is much better-looking.

Taft: David Wright is great and Scott Rolen has a dandy batting average, but Miguel Cabrera is getting on base 44.2% of the time with power to boot. Much better looking?

Ross: Yeah, dude. Wright is really handsome.

Taft: Cabrera is pretty handsome. I mean, he’s no David Wright, but he’s no mutant either.

Ross: Cabrera has too much of a baby face.

Taft: You don’t like the baby face, do you?

Ross: One thing we can agree on: Scott rolen looks like my dog.

Taft: Yeah, Scott Rolen is an ugly, ugly man. Having a very nice season, though.

Ross: He’s a great player. But, he looks like a bulldog. That look is fine on a bulldog. Some might even call it “cute.” On a human being, it is gross.

Cabrera’s defense actually hasn’t been that bad; he’s playing better 3B than he was playing left field, actually; average.

Taft: David Wright has actually been worse than Cabrera on D, according to BP; -8 Runs Above Average vs. 0 Runs Above Average

Ross: Yes.

Taft: So you’re voting for Wright because….

Ross: I am wrong.

Taft: he’s handsome.

Ross: That’s absolutely true. He is handsome. Is that a false statement?

Taft: No, but I think you’re voting with your fringed shorts instead of for who should actually be the All-Star.

Ross: Come on, dude. You know it’s a toss-up between Cabrera and Wright. I just like Wright better.

Taft: It’s not really a toss-up to me, though.

Ross: Stop making fun of my shorts. They look very nice.

Taft: Dude, they’re fringed, I’m never going to stop making fun of them.

According to BP, Cabrera hs been 8 runs better on defense, and he’s getting on base at a nutty clip with almost the same power
I don’t see how you could vote for Wright, knowing all of that.
Both of these guys could be HOFers way down the line.

Ross: Right. And Wright will get more HOF votes because he plays in NY. But, I am sticking with him.

Taft: “I tend to use VORP, and if it’s remotely close (within 5 points of VORP), I go with the guy who has had the better career.” – You, about fifteen minutes ago. Who’s had the better career? Cabrera, no question.

Ross: Well,I’m breaking from my method. I’m going over the process’ head and using a new stat: HORP
Handsomeness over replacement player.

Taft: Well, I just want you to acknowledge what a horrible hypocrite you are to our readers then.

Ross: David Wright may not lead the league in HORP, but he’s close.
(Huston Street, by the way, leads the league in HORP)

Taft: Okay, that’s fine. Just acknowledge that you’re an awful hypocrite. And know that you represent all White Sox fans when you admit that.

Ross: Whoa. What? I only represent myself, thank you very much. If I represented Sox fans, I’m sure I’d vote differently.

Taft: No, I think you’re clearly representing the Sox fans’ desire to vote with their pants instead of with their heads. Remember that time all those Sox fans elected South Sider Jenny McCarthy to the All-Star team? What a disaster that was.

Ross: I think you need to stop about that.

Taft: Okay, let’s move on to shortstop. Is there anyone handsome at that position you’d like to irrationaly vote for, Ross? Personally, I’d like to vote for Jose Valentin, but he hasn’t been playing much shortstop. Honestly, I’m really torn as to who to vote for at NL SS.
Nobody at the top of the leaderboard in VORP (Jose Reyes, Edgar Renteria, Bill Hall, Omar Vizquel) has been consistenly good.
Renteria had a notoriously bad season last year, and Reyes really hasn’t lived up to his potential until this year. And it’s still only half a season.

Bill Hall had a nice year last year, but he doesn’t get on base at all.

Ross: I like Reyes. He’s still very young.

Taft: He is leading the NL in VORP by almost 7 points. Pretty good margin, actually.

Ross: Yeah. He’s really turning into a pretty good player.

Taft: Ugh. I just don’t know. Nobody stands out. Again, with Reyes, if it was one year from now and he had put up a full season of the .293/.351/.479 he’s currently doing, I’d vote for him in a second
But this guy had a .300 OBP last year. I’m not convinced this isn’t an anomaly.

Ross: Supposedly,Willie Randolph is teaching him good.

Okay, my vote is going to Renteria.
He’s second in VORP, and seems to be having a far improved season over his disaster of a year in beantown.

Ross: I understand that. He’s a good player having an excellent year.

Taft: He’s even playing above average defense again this year.

Ross: Good for him.

Taft: Okay, to the outfield:
I’ve got Jason Bay, Carlos Beltran and Bobby Abreu.
Left to Right.

Ross: Oh,man.

Taft: Matt Holliday leads NL LF in VORP, but Matt Holliday is another player who I’m not totally sold on as an All-Star. Bay is one of the more underrated players in all of baseball.

Ross: I’ve got Bay, Beltran and Holliday.

Taft: Beltran is lighting up the NL, slugging better than .600. Abreu has lost some pop but is still an OBP machine, getting on base 44.6% of the time.

Ross: Abreu’s close, but I’m sticking with Holliday. He’s six points of VORP above the third-place outfielder. (Bay, who I’d have there anyway, as he’s a Buccaneer)

Taft: Actually, looking at Holliday’s numbers, I can’t say I’m opposed to him being in the all-star game. He really has done nothing but hit since getting to the majors.

Ross: I kind of wish I could vote Ryan Howard in the OF. Also, Prince.

Taft: Ryan Howard will make the team. Prince, maybe some other year, but I bet you anything Howard makes the team; he’s leading the NL in homers.

Ross: Yeah, probably. Prince, by the way, five SB on the year

Taft: Any other handsome players you want to vote for irrationally?
I’m going to write in Jose Valentin at NL SS.

Ross: He plays second!

Taft: He’ll always be a shortstop to me.

Ross: Me,too. Prince Fielder: Cannot be president.

Taft: Born in Japan?

Ross: There goes my vote in 13 years.
Nope, born in toronto, when papa wasplaying for the jays, I imagine.

Taft: Ah. So no prince for prez.

Ross: Prince cannot be king of America. If he wasn’t morbidly obese, I’d have a crush on him. 260. And if he’s 6’0”, I’m an astronaut.

Taft: He’s not morbidly obese.

Ross: That’s pretty huge dude.

Taft: Actually according to the Body Mass Index, Prince is obese.
http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/

Ross: That’s what I’m saying. He’s not six feet. He’s shorter than that.

Taft: Even if he was, he would be obese at 260.

Ross: Too bad.